V6-fitting gearboxes

Hello!

I have been pointed here by an existing member of this site (Rupert?) from whom I recently purchased a 3.0i V6 12V Renault Laguna engine. I have a rather complex dilemma regarding gearboxes, so my apologies if this turns out to be a novel!

I am intending to run the engine in my Phase 1 Renault 19, which to my knowledge will make it the first Renault 19 to sport a V6 engine. My main reasons for doing this versus a traditional F7P 16V "Valver" conversion is that the performance on the F7P is all at the top-end of the rev range and have somewhat questionable reliability.

My original 'plan A' was to perform a 2.0 Clio Wiliams conversion, but the cost of these setups are phenomenal, with eBay auctions usually commanding ~ £1000. When I saw this V6 engine up for sale, I decided to take the plunge and go with the V6: a) because it was cheap, b) because it would be different, and c) once done, it would produce a hell of a lot more torque and 20bhp more than a Williams when standard.

One thing I am lacking for the conversion however, is a gearbox, and so far I have been led to believe that all Laguna's running this engine were automatic. However I would like to run a manual gearbox and am somewhat unsure as to what is available/compatable with it.

I have been told that the 'PK6' Laguna gearbox was manual and if the gearset and linkage is transferred into the Laguna V6 automatic gearbox's bellhousing, then it can be bolted to the engine and function as a makeshift manual gearbox. However I would much prefer to use something as is, as opposed to manufacturing 'custom' components that have an important job.

The information Rupert has given me seems to suggest that a manual gearbox from one of the earlier 90-degree V6 engines used by Citroen/Renault/Peugeot could be mated up with my V6 engine. The only restriction being that the gearbox must come from a transversely mounted engine. This limits me to either a Laguna (which as I said, are all automatics as far as I know) or from an Espace.

A Renault technician from another Renault enthusiasts club I am a member of, the Renault Sports Club (RSC) told me that I could run an Espace gearbox as long as I fitted an Espace flywheel.

Basically what I'm hoping someone on here might know, is what manual gearboxes (if any) are compatable with the engine that I have purchased. All I know is that the engine in question is a pushrod 3.0i V6 12V which Renault designated as being a 'Z7X-767'.

I realise such a question seems a little out of place on such a forum, given that it doesn't involve a Renault Alpine, but if anybody is in a position to help me out it would be most appreciated!

Regards,


Ben
www.retro-renault.com
www.renaultsportsclub.co.uk

Oh my god, your nuts!

PK1 gearbox was used very rarely on Laguna V6s as a manual option.

PK6 was used on the 2.0 options

Problem is, the manual boxes don't like the torque of the V6!

Thanks for your reply David. I thought posting on here was a long shot but it seems someone knows a bit more than I do!

So what I gather then is that there are a small number of manual transmission Laguna's that ran the engine I have?

Are you aware of any other compatable gearboxes from other makes/models?

And yes I've seen the gearbox problems they have, I've seen many advertised with gearbox faults.

I'm just researching everything before committing myself really. I acquired the engine for a good price, at least in my opinion, so I wont be losing a great deal monetarily if this project ends up being a no go affair!

Ben

I know nothing about Laguna's, but is it worth trying to source a manual gbox in France, ebay.fr or even through a french car club?
Good Luck.

David, d'you think that the flywheel & Manual box from my V6 24V XM would fit it?

The 24v V6's in the Citroens and Peugeots will mate up with a UN1 box so I would assume any 'box that goes on a PRV block will fit so that would leave you the choice of gearbox from the following cars, XM V6 and 24v, 605 V6 and 24v, Laguna V6, and Espace V6 for definite, some of the 900 series Volvos (are they mounted inline or transverse?), I think they did a V6 Xantia for a while too. Might be worth investigating whether a 'box from the early 406 V6's is usable, a fair few of them were manual but I'm not sure whether that 3 litre is PRV based. I've seen V6 manual Lagunas every so often on E-bay.

You guys have been absolute magic in the info stakes!

I'm not going to be put off by this conversion at all, I know it's going to be arduous, but I've got dual subs set up in the boot to compensate for the weight being at the front and I'm going to be retaining the power steering as well which will help.

I've heard of Nova's and Mini's running V6's without problem so I can't see why a good size car like a 19 shouldn't be able to cope.

Chassis is also 5dr and is shared with the Renault 19 TD, the biggest torque producer of the range so chassis strength isn't a problem.

The only thing concerning me about the gearbox is reliability. Out of the 'boxes suggested which ones were the most reliable, or are they all the same?

I think they are all going to be the same but I don't think 200bhp should adversely worry a 3.0 'box. You could always fit a Safrane 4x4 'box and run it in 2 wheel drive only. You'll have to go looking in France though, I sold a brand new one for £500 a couple of years back.

David, d'you think that the flywheel & Manual box from my V6 24V XM would fit it?

That will fit the engine, whether the whole lot will fit the car is a different matter!

He's got manifolds, move/modify steering, water piping, subframe mods, fabricate new driveshafts, modify front hubs, ecu wiring, make new gear linkage, on top of the basics of whether the 'big bits' will fit or not!

This smacks of a seriously doomed project....either that or one you read about in mags like Retrocars where people spend five years of their lives building a somewhat eccentric car. Are you sure you want to go through with this now that youve read what people have said??? Especially as it would appear that you havent really gone into proper detail to start with? (sorry if I sound harsh but theres nothing worse than seeing someone selling off bits of their dream for a few quid because they werent fully au-fait with what they had got themselves into....kitcar and racecar mags are full of them!)

Normally you'd be right but I'm blessed with knowing a group of very knowledgable and hands-on people who have all agreed to come down and get involved.

I have it on relatively good authority that the main problem with this conversion will be plumbing in the cooling system. Other than that I think I have all the bases covered.

Like I've said, I acquired the engine from Rupert for (IMO) a good price so I wont be too disheartened if it doesn't end up working, I'll just revert back to the original plan of transplanting a Williams, or as somebody said in the other thread, the 2.0 8V which sounds like an interesting conversion.

I'm certainly gonna give it a go, I'm not gonna give up with out looking into it first!

hello gentle ben, wecome to the site, love the idea of a V6 '19, coool!!!

don't be put off by peterg, he is getting very gruppy and cynical in his old age

I'm cynical thats for sure! There used to be a standard answer to quite a few technical questions in that bible of car mags Car and Car Conversions and it was....'if you have to write to us asking the question you really dont have the capabiltity to complete the project' Now I'm not saying it in this case because Ben seems vaguely convincing....but if he was totally convincing then he wouldnt be asking questions. On the other hand everyones got to start somewhere...who knows in 10 years time he might be designing race cars!!!!

Ye have too much faith Peter!

Hi Gentle Ben,

A friend of mine put a 3-litre Honda V6 onto a VW Beetle gearbox and it works fine, so don't be put off!