24v engine build.

ok, so you have a 24v front wheel drive v6 peugeot/renault engine and an old prv lump. what has to be done next to make it work in an alpine?

You need the bottom engine casing and sump fro the existing engine.
You need to keep the loom and ECU (if it is a manual g'box) as it may be simpler to reuse this rather than do a new system. If you use the existing then you have to move the dizzy to the other side of the engine.
You need nice new exhaust custom made as the heads have 6 port exhaust manifolds.
Er lots of patience to get the water plumbing right, a larger radiator (A610) and fuel pump (A610)
A 24V engine!
Sure I will have missed something... Stephen?

[stephendell]

That will work for an Atmo application.

For a turbo you will also need the A610 inlet manifold and possibly some modifications to the timing chain cover if you move the distributor. On the plus side you don't need the custom exhaust.

I'm dubious whether the A610 inlet manifold is going to fit. The heads are completely different aren't they. And hasn't the 24v got bigger inlet ports? might be an idea to drop the compression ratio a bit too if your going to turbo it.

Yep, ports are larger and a different shape on the 24v for the inlet manifold, and if you do turbo it you will still need custom manifolds (but not the silencer as Steve mentioned)

Pistons can replaced with 610 items, or machined to a flat deck (as per the 610 pistons)...if you turbo it.
N/A manifold wise, either new 6 port manifolds, 'stretched port' A310/GTA Devil type manifolds, or have a thick flange adaptor made up each side to go from the 6 port to standard A310/GTA Devil type manifolds.

The 605 had two types avaiable, one with hydraulic and one with mechanical lifters, latter is the better and more reliable.

.......so all the internals fit into the old casing with no modifcation?
and if you have the old wiring loom (as long was it is a manual car) then an N/A version should be straight forward!!!
why all the high costs then
what am i missing.

There are no high costs, the most expensive bit is the knowing what to do with the exhaust manifolds. You can pick up a complete engine for around £500-600 as some people have done. Personally I would try and pick up a whole running car if possible and drive it around for a bit so you know that the engine runs ok, this is what I did with the 25. Whole cars float around the £1000 mark for a doggy one, but road legal.

Only problem with any of these engine choices is that most of the donors are high milers. I was lucky with my new lump only doing 55,000, but ive still reconditioned the main parts.

Yep but it is finding one that is difficult....
The 24V PRV cars (605 and XM) are very rare. I was very lucky to find one about 10miles away and very cheap. As David said, I got a whole car and drove it around for a month or two.

You'd have to have been insane to buy one new........you might as well have driven off throwing fivers out the window!!! One minute youve paid £20,000+ for a car, two weeks later its worth £12.50!!!!!

[stephendell]

Sorry Tony, I was thinking of your engine, of course the 610 manifold won't fit the 24V, must be the jet lag

I think we tried everything and nothing lined up (GTA, A610, Safrane etc)

On mine I'm probably retaining the original inlet manifold. It's not an ideal design though for installation in other vehicles. To start with the air intake is up against the bulkhead in a GTA. Also there are two vacuum operated flaps, one to balance the left and right plenums and one to open the seperate idle chamber.

If you run R25 injection/ECU etc as most conversions do then you can't control these properly and on the two cars I've seen they have been welded permanentley open which can't be ideal. I've just bought a new ECU with additional outputs so hope to be able to program it to control these.

To run a turbo(s) you would need a custom manifold or one from a venturi or similar. I'm hoping to make life easier with a centrifugal charger from Rotrex or Vortech.

The cost can soon escalate unless you are lucky sourcing the parts. As David (& Rupert) says it's often cheaper to purchase the whole car. If you have a turbo car to start with that also makes it cheaper as you don't need the extra fuel pump (and anti-surge tank). Also if you are willing to canabalise your existing engine that will save the expense of the crankcase and sump. The oil pickup also needs changing.

Typical costs:

24V engine £500
Custom manifolds & exhaust £500-1000 depending on spec/quality
ECU £500+ (unless you start with a turbo or canabalise a 25)
Fuel pump £100+

If you have an atmo you will need to cut out the spare wheel well to make room for the exhaust. Also you will need a lot of heat protection as you can't use any of the original heatshields.

To add a supercharger that's another £1000-£1500 plus a few hundred for a custom intercooler. Then there's all the custom plumbing and loads of other small headaches so you can see how it can all get expensive quite quickly.

& that's not forgetting all the labour costs if you're not going to do all the work yourself!

But we would all rather spend our hard earned money on the cars rather than something else domestic.

Sounds very expensive! If youre paying someone its going to work out at £3-4000 and thats for an atmo and way more for a turbo. For £3000 you could make a normal atmo quite pokey (triple carbs, cams and exhausts).

Sounds very expensive! If youre paying someone its going to work out at £3-4000 and thats for an atmo and way more for a turbo. For £3000 you could make a normal atmo quite pokey (triple carbs, cams and exhausts).

This is the dilemma if you already have an Atmo engine. The 24v at best in standard spec should do 230bhp, but better cams and inlet are not available, and changing the exhausts are expensive, and to squeeze a little more, full aftermarket management would be needed, and pay somebody to fit and map it.

Wheras on the GTA atmo, lairy cams, triple carb conversion, raised compression and better manifolds are easily available and can reap the same power, without all the hard work of swapping the engine and getting it running. The 193 bhp A310, with a few of the above parts (but lower capacity, smaller valves, lesser lift cams) has been recorded to pull the standing quarter mile in 13.9 seconds.

The main advantage of the 24v is fuel economy and cold starting and general driving quality.

Ive just thought of someting I missed, in relation to the info on my new ecu, and going back to the point Steve made, and what I mentioned to Rupert in the past. The 24v conversions in France use the R25 V6 ecu, I thought this was just because of the immobiliser problems in the original ecus that are heavily wired into the vehicle, but ive now realised they can be reprogrammed, as like my new ecu's to give the engine 240bhp (see other thread GTA T3 turbo specs).

Other wise the engine on standard setup (if you could get round the immobiliser) will do around the 200bhp mark

Rupert...looks like your going to have to source a 25 ecu!

We were planning to do all new engine management, Emerald stylee....
Dump the dizzy.