Martin’s PRV bone yard…

Some updated info on my progress



I have to do a final check of each port with the calipers and do some final blending and finally done!

Hi Brian,

I dug out some pictures of the same head casting as yours effectively that I did over two years ago now, possibly more (well certainly the heads part of it), for the bi-turbo 2.5ltr A310 engine build now owned (car) by Bob (CGB). Might interest Bob too... here you go:





Regards,
Martin

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Brian, this might be a thread worth having a read, bottom of the final page re-cams, timing and some feedback from Turbo 5:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1879&hilit=swirl&start=30

Rolling road thread, always worth keeping handy for reference, olde golde:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1984&hilit=cyclone

Talking RR et al, JonV have you had any further news on those clutch upgrades?

Martin

. but thought you might enjoy the things that I have tried that didn’t work…

So some more of the ideas of things I've tried, and odd curiosities...

Whilst looking at using the later even-fire 3ltr heads on the 2.5ltr bottom end, there were a number of challenges, one of which was the projected plug boss, and what to do with it… ie the close proximity and rapid combustion flame front quench on the piston crown when using the OE 2.5ltr turbo bottom end.







As can be seen, with the 2.5 ltr piston it brings the plug nose very close to the raised crown of the piston, noting that the pictures you see here have already had the piston crown modification I did as below, so in fact much worse when an unmodified OE piston is deployed ...



Idea was also to create a better combustion space between the valves. It was a lot of messing around, and I think with further work probably would have worked great, but my “channel” wasn’t in the optimal position as I originally thought… I might try it again at some point, but otherwise simply put, the 3ltr heads will not work well with the 2.5ltr bottom end, so not a straight swap.

But all weird things lead on to new ideas , until next time, don’t bother trying this at home!



Martin

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Merry Christmas all bonus - we made it through the year!

Well, quick up date on here, got 4 turbo builds going through, so batched them up and doing them at the same time to get in the swing of it efficiently, and the last one to join the pack rather focused my mind on “get it done” mentality… I have a few more “don’t try this at home folks” that I will post up as I find the old photos of things tried and either not successful or simply had no impact or performance improvement. But getting back to hybrid turbos, in the ring is JIL on the left, Sean A610 in the middle, and Darren’s replacement on the right. Soon to be followed by Tom K’s unit for his Le Man’s car, and very nice indeed that is now looking IMO… but the clock is ticking to get the package together for him – turbo, cams, ecu, and injectors for DIY install and setup as it will ship as a package with the car. So I will be looking forward to see the next instalment of his Le Mans evolution, and a project thread from across the continent. I also found an over centre 0.63 A/R exhaust housing that will keep the centre height down to get the package inside the heatshields with no modification, making life easier for Tom when he comes to it.

They are all different specifications for different reasons, and I can go into detail if folk are interested, but I’ll put more details in the respective places on the threads to spread the love. In the meantime, my patented turbo mug heater to keep your brew nice and warm…













Cheers all,
Martin

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Whilst on turbos, sadly this is what most of the OE turbos will likely be looking inside now... this one is from the Gold GTA BigM broke many moons ago, it was running a bleed valve for added boost so likely came in for some abuse... all looks reasonably well from the outside...

Blown piston ring seal on the compressor side, and drilling through the thrust bearing:







Also good reminder to get those winter services done, and get that oil changed, and use something decent than X-lacks special chip fat derivative...

Smiles,
Martin

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Oh here's the shaft picture that went with that, nice...

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Old stuff this a few years back now, ideas and things that didn’t work, I look back and smile

This was an attempt to improve cam bearing wear rates, the problem isn’t here at all… and as you may guess this actually made it worse..



Machined in a 360 degree oil groove, and some little oil reservoirs, as the witness wear lines show, backward step.. so not an area of weakness, but much learning and trying too hard on things that don’t need it..







At best it did nothing…



So what’s next for 2014… well that would be telling

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Out of interest, and something that will lead into which core head castings to use for performance, I would like to know from folk out there tuning, which style head they are using, and how much ignition advance at peak power and torque (more you know and can share the better we will be able to correlate data) you are needing to run, and anything specific to the chamber etc to speed combustion - both turbo and non-turbo? Hence, for example 2.5ltr even-fire head with retracted plug boss, x degrees advance at peak torque power, x degrees at peak torque as known, even if rough figures. Be good to get the 24V numbers as well - so over to you guys, chance to build some collective knowledge AndyH , Andrea, Eddie, CLee (you have a bunch of maps from JIL back in the day), John Law, JohnW - R21 combustion chamber is relevant 8V and 12V, John Lane, Alan Moore, Tommy, Rupert, Richard W, David G et al not meaning to miss anyone, apologies if I have... so your input would be great, and would really appreciate your time on this guys

Thanks,
Martin

somewhere ......I think all the old maps are on my dead Toughbook ...or they might be on an old tower as well ...somewhere ...

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As I’m doing a batch of turbos, there are a number of common steps, so made up a batch of modified housings, and various

Raw materials… taking one very restrictive OE housing..





Turn it into chips… hang on I hear you say, that’s my lovely expensive A610 housing getting the cutter there… indeed sir, it’s what you leave behind that counts…



Sharp edge gets blended in later...



Holes R Us..



Don’t get your compressor assemblies balanced like this…



TomK’s assembly mentioned with the others earlier, now in build equates to a stage II (T34 compressor and up-rated Garrett T3 turbine), with the stage I being the T3 Super 60 compressor; both setups are now well tested and on a number of cars:







360 deg thrust upgrade:



This is part of Tom’s self install tuning package, and will be complimented with cams, upgraded Renix 1 ecu, and matched injectors. Tom’s car is going to be a very fine example indeed when all done, and a real cross club effort as the main build threads from Andy paint and John Law show:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6484
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6750

Cheers,
Martin

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Couple more pictures on Tom's turbo, I'll post pictures of the finished assembly, and package overall for him as well before going in the box of goodies...

No cracks in this 0.68 A/R turbine housing, ported internal waste gate, and refaced gasket flange for good measure:





Mods to base plate to accommodate the actuator body on the larger size compressor cover:



Ported ready to go...





CHRA assembly bolted up:







It was finished off last weekend, but dead phone battery so no pics of the actuator brackets etc assembly, so will get an "as built" of the finished assembly over the weekend.

Regards,
Martin

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I didn't get down the w/shop today, instead enjoyed the delights of being at work instead. Consequently I didn't get the chance to take pictures of the turbo as finished Tom, but here's the rest of the kit, and I will look for a regulator for you.

Stage I regrind cams, pair ready to install straight up on the index peg:



Take out wrap, and in this case will come with chips...



... modified ecu ready for 27128A EPROM chip, plus the other electronic mods for a bad Renix 1 6x new injector to match, and the cams... otherwise know as chicken fried rice, no 23 please...



Sold sir

Cheers,
Martin

Are those one of the 214cc sets I sourced Martin?

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Hi Darren,

Yes indeed, and will be running on a variable pressure regulator, to increase the net flow with better atomisation than at OE fuel rail pressure.

Following on with this topic, pictures of the turbo and regulator for Tom, just need to pack for the trip to warmer lands...









Don't forget to prime the oil before firing up...

Cheers,
Martin

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Some little bits’n’pieces of PRV et al interest off the net:

Page 3 – wow - burned out A310, and then it’s restoration… very nice indeed…
http://www.renault-tuning.com/viewtopic ... &start=140



More A310 stuff..
http://www.historicalpineracing.com/a310/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03_O6v045h8

This is a thing of beauty, do watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M32sIShzIxM

This is more my kind of stuff… lay it down large, boys in Argentina; love it – looks like the natural home for a PRV! Well, I’ve always wanted to go out there…. Chassis dyno run of a race atmo single seater… very nice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqSmwRvpqi0

Here you go atmo boys, doing the business with a simple carb... no fancy conversions here should give you faith. If these guys think they needed more carb to go racing and go fast I think they would have fitted it looking at the rest of the setup!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-J_8p9RzRw

Some more atmo carb conversions here, worth looking at, I know old material now, but still relevant. The Fish carb is an interesting one, I wonder how that worked out… always good notes from OddFire:

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/peugeo ... t-prv.html

Talking A310’s and tuning… don’t forget this article, and of interest to all as a tuning option, old article now, but worth keeping in mind…







Axel’s 2.9ltr conversion, always interesting to compare, but a torque curve would be more useful:



Some more interesting PRV stuff from around the world and it all goes to show the basis for creativity this engine can be:
http://alpinerenault.free.fr/outils/for ... 17387624be



There’s a bi-turbo TurboBrick Volvo in the middle of the page (turbos up high with no oil drain back issues, advantage of the front engine arrangement, looks mean too), nice stuff on there any way:

http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/showt ... 738&page=5



An old thread with StunedMonkey on it:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... id=0&i=940

Some nice Pug PRV stuff on here page 5 and 6:
http://www.forum-auto.com/automobiles-m ... 63-140.htm



http://boxerville.se/forum/viewtopic.php?id=16780





Going for inertia tuning, be good to know how well this works out:



I think JL originally mentioned these guys to me (A310’s etc circuit racing in Europe), but I came across their site again the other day, and some seriously nice stuff here, love the mechanical injection, and look for the embedded video ¾ of the page down.

http://www.equipejaronn.com/paginas/laatstenieuws



Renault Alpine A310 V6 Gr2 – they have up for sale:
“2.8 V6, 209 bhp, UN1 Gearbox, Weber carburettors, race ready with spares, fresh engine and gearbox. Comes with set of rain tyres and extra rear wheels.” One ready made then…

There is some truly inspiring stuff there to get the juices going  So come on all your PuRVists, need to get those boots a walking… Cedric, how are you getting on now? Will, have you got breaks and an MOT yet? Chris… manifolds and gearbox? Eddie, how’s the mid-engine coming along? Andrea, how are you’re projects coming along, you have been very quiet, must have something cooking? How's the X19 investigations going Brian, have you got your A310 up and running? I know... I need to hurry up too...

Martin