Phildini A610 Black beauty or more like bank breaker project

Cutting off at around a set number of revs to me, sounds like fuel starvation..... is there a fuel restriction somewhere that is just allowing fuel to flow for low rev running, but is insufficient for higher revs? ...... just a thought.

I had exactly the same thought on the last description of the symptoms as I recognised them.

When I had issues with the front lifter pump the engine would die either after about 5 mins of idling or as I put my foot down. On my car the lifter pump was working intermittantly, and I reckon to some degree there was also a siphon effect from the front tank to the aux tank, so if I stopped the car it would re-start after a few minutes then die as soon as i put my foot down.

Also, as the fuel was running out then ecu made adjustments to try and keep it running and this caused the revs to rise just before cut out.

I may be way off the mark, but its worth considering.

Thanks guys I will try and give that a look, my car idles fine, BLUEG33 when your car cut out was it instant or did it splatter under load?

splutter, splutter dieeeee...........

[phildini]

I have managed to get my car running by earthing the fuel pump relay ( Follow BIGMVS red A610 thread )
The unusual thing about my problem, is that it's doing it hot or cold straight from start up. It was not this bad before the engine came out, so maybe it is a wiring issue that's making the ECU trip the fuel pump..........

.....so maybe it is a wiring issue that's making the ECU trip the fuel pump..........

No.... I would not say that Filippo. The fact that it runs with the earth link in shows that the 12v feed to the fuel pump is robust. The earth link just replaces the earthing to the relay coil ,rather than earthing via the ECU.

[phildini]

.....so maybe it is a wiring issue that's making the ECU trip the fuel pump..........

No.... I would not say that Filippo. The fact that it runs with the earth link in shows that the 12v feed to the fuel pump is robust. The earth link just replaces the earthing to the relay coil ,rather than earthing via the ECU.

But how about maybe something around the engine, like a split in a wire to another component etc... might send a signal to the ECU and hence why it keeps shutting the fuel pump down. My car was not as bad as this before I took the engine out. The wiring loom ( top and bottom ) has been moved and shifted around a bit, while the engine was out to gain access to other parts, these wires are all a bit crispy even thought they have heat protection around them.

.
The ecu definitely counts faults to an allowable limit before reset, and will cut the injection relay. But I believe it only does this during stationary idling (safety reasons), as I have experienced this, and have changed the count values in the BIN so that it doesn't do it anymore. That was only from the annoyance factor, as I fudge the knock sensor I'm always incrementing the repeated fault code count.

[phildini]

.
The ecu definitely counts faults to an allowable limit before reset, and will cut the injection relay. But I believe it only does this during stationary idling (safety reasons), as I have experienced this, and have changed the count values in the BIN so that it doesn't do it anymore. That was only from the annoyance factor, as I fudge the knock sensor I'm always incrementing the repeated fault code count.

Dear Mr Faulks, thanks very much for your input on both threads. I am not electronically minded like yourself, so to put it in plain electronic english for a simple person like myself, you reckon this is an internal ecu fault and not an extarnal source that might effect the ECU to fuel pump behavior?

Phil:

1. the ecu will cut the fuel injection relay when the maximum fault count is reached, but only at idle and stationary

2. the ecu responds to external sensors and validates their correct operation - if they are (&or the signals received at the ecu connector) out of bounds or intermittent it counts faults as well as logging the details - hit the fault count it cuts off as condition 1. above, but only at idle. Restart the engine, and the count starts back at zero.

If the engine is being cut during normal driving, it didn't do it before, and most of the time things seem fine now, I doubt it's the ecu. If there is a hard electronic fault in the ecu it will exhibit it all the time, unless as JohnC has mention a dry joint or weak component. But a dry joint wouldn't have changed significantly in the time your engine has been out, and nor has the ecu been stressed affecting any weak components.. unless you put it in your ice cream van freezer for safe keeping - joke! So, on that basis I think with high probability you should give your ecu to Big M to solve his problem, and you have a good hunt around what has been disturbed in the meantime

Martin

[phildini]

Taken the 610 for a longish drive and all seems ok with the addition of the Earth strap on the Fuel pump Relay.

........Has anyone asked he Frenchies if this is a known fault on the lhd cars ?? Might be worth doing that ......

JR aka Jean-Remi follows this forum, he's French and owns a RHD A610, I am sure he must participate in some of the French Alpine Forums........ Mr Remi would you like to add anything ?

.....This fault appears to be heat related................

John don't forget my car did it from start up, the only thing that was getting hot was the fuel pump relay. Since the earth wire as been added it's just warm.

You coming on Sunday then? Nice little jaunt back home will refresh it.

Trevor.

Try putting a higher amp relay in ,remove the strap and report back please .

John don't forget my car did it from start up, the only thing that was getting hot was the fuel pump relay. Since the earth wire as been added it's just warm.

Yes, but if you remember you stated that before you ripped your 610 apart, it was intermittent which was possibly heat related. It was only some months (years ) later that you could not start the engine without the earth strap...... so what might have happened to a bad joint in that time with the car not used and outside for all or some of the time? I will let you work that one out.
With regard to the temperature variation of the relay..... you changed the original to a higher rated one.... 12v on both.... coil resistances different.... possibly, high resistant contacts.... possibly, high resistance relay socket.... possibly, or I suppose, shorted turns in the coil...... all these could cause a relay to overheat, ..... need I go on.
Cheers
John

[phildini]

Try putting a higher amp relay in ,remove the strap and report back please .

OKY Donkey.....

........................With regard to the temperature variation of the relay..... you changed the original to a higher rated one.... 12v on both.... coil resistances different.... possibly, high resistant contacts.... possibly, high resistance relay socket.... possibly, or I suppose, shorted turns in the coil...... all these could cause a relay to overheat, ....

Still has the original one fitted.

Still has the original one fitted.

Sorry Filippo, I thought I read that you had changed it...... my mistake.

[phildini]

Right... Today I took ecu, relays off/out and thoroughly cleaned all the connections. Then sprayed with Johns favourite electrical cleaner and......... YEAP all working lovely. Conclusion it seems to me that the A610 is a lot more sensetive to very slightly corroded connections than a GTA. I will still keep that extra earth lead in the car, just in case it does it while in traffic.... I tend to agree with Lee, I reckon the relay could do with being replaced with a higher amperage one.

I now have a speedo that does not work lol oh well.....

THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR THEIR INPUT, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT

I reckon the relay could do with being replaced with a higher amperage one.

Waste your money by all means......... Automotive Relays, are normally rated at 20, 30 or 40 amps (contact current carrying capacity) no less..... in the 610, the fuel pump relay only has to carry the current of one pump unlike the GTA turbo. One pump will draw around 3 to 6 amps... 8 max, so as you can see even the lowest 20 amp relay will not be asked to run a current anywhere near its max limit.
Glad to hear that cleaning the connectors seems to have made a difference...... it just reminded me of a post I put up on Martins "Red A610" thread on the 5th Sept:-

If it were mine, assuming I could get into it (see note above) I would be looking for a dry joint by following pin 6 of the ECU connector, some means back to earth. But first I would check the condition of pin 6 in the ECU's connector.