Martin’s PRV bone yard…

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Morning both,

Well the best thing to do if you want to get accurate numbers, is to measure the rolling circumference (jack up and string or tape), and weigh car and driver. Especially in your case JV as you have gone fully loaded with all the air con anchor weight..

So have we got enough people interested to do Bruntingthorpe this year?

There must be a few Darren and Teglen (that's got to be a good head-to-head), Trevor, JonV (will it get you home with a clutch ), Smithy (bring all the torque you can ), Law's (come on, not much to finish now , needs a birthday!), Dell (21 comp car out for fresh air?), Bob (come on let's see it go bi-turbo A310), Will if he's finished..., Cedric.. with the help of the guardian angels.., Eddie (24V... are you still receiving radio Netherlands?), Miles (bi-turbo, come on you know you want too!), A610 and Venture boys, Johnb (before you send it off for paint), more for more, must be some l have missed.. hopefully I'll have had F50 done and dusted as it's supposed to be going to Macon!

Food for thought,
Martin

... by heck, only 2 years later, well in terms of the British Library project that was quick! Note to self, must not get distracted

That is indeed a thing of beauty. Beige Formica 1970's era old kitched cupboard on the left. Class in a glass! Just like I have in my garage.

More pics of the Motor!

Ok here you go... creeping up on it to not scare it away... lol... I think the induction noise is going to get a bit tiring, but hey ho!







Soon to be running on a Renix 3A ecu, will keep you posted.

Martin

Hey ho, update time, Houston we have go! This is for Eddie really, I will get a better video for you when we go to Peter's dyno, welcome to come if you can... this has been a real collaborative project in terms of getting Chris up and running with his P4 after a long history. The car is simply stunning, and it has been achieved with ingenuity by Chris; it hasn't been a 20k budget spend on an engine upgrade either, substantially less... Chris had originally contacted Stunned Monkey for a tripple weber setup to replace the constant injection setup he had on his R30 PRV unit. Stunned put Chris on to me very kindly, and I talked with Chris regarding potential options, suggested going even-fire PRV engine swap, cams, fuel injection, and throttle bodies... intention was to achieve the same costs approximately as the webers and inlet manifold for the tripples. It was agreed, and off we went, I then put Chris in touch with Eddie to get the throttle bodies, manifold, and linkage setup. CLee and I sorted a donar 3ltr engine, received a cam upgrade, and I then had the OE Fenix 3A ecu to sort blah blah... both Chris and I have had various bits to do here and there, and last year I was pretty time depleted, so progress was slow, and each visit I made was really fixing bugs one at a time around the engine, as it had all been sat for 20 years... and you simply find things, Chris dilgently fixed and we moved forward.. I've obviously got to know Chris very well through the process, and it has been a pleasure to walk this journey with him.. he's already talking about his next dream project... and ummm it would be nice, especially when you look at his work and attention to detail... Ok, back to the plot - yesterday got Chris up and running with a Mot trip map, real tuning to be finished off on a session later... but here you go, first spin of the wheels for 20 years...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUJeM6rRlho

Enjoy,
Martin

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Chris if you are reading, some interesting stuff over here for you:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=2&f=47&t=1179467&mid=90049&i=20&nmt=Noble+P4+Ferrari+Replica%2E&mid=90049

Cheers,
Martin

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Time flies... well I thought I would share a heads up on dizzy caps, cost me a trip to Macon, so to save others chasing their tail, then here's what I found - basically stick to Bosch original components, pay the extra...the Beru etc pattern parts all from an Italian factory are only fit for the bin... do not use them.. there are a number of hidden defects:

poor jigging and contact alignment
off centre contacts
leaning contacts
very thin moulding that breaks down
voids and inclusions in the mouldings
distortion in the case
prone to cracking and HT tracking...

Here's a new unit, the plastic layer was so thin on the outside HT runner that the coil volts tracked through to the metal dizzy cap mount. This was happening on both sides of this dizzy cap fitted to F50, so bad that I pulled from the trip to Macon, as couldn't find the cause... I had taken the cap off and checked it, but had missed to look at the plastic outside of the inner shield. It wasn't until the day after, when I was looking at it in slow time that it jumped out at me. I then peeled the cracked tracked plastic back to see the direct tracking short.. lesson learned simply buy the best only, may as well gain, and save the pain...



Here you can see a straight contact, and one bent over in the manufacturing jig, easy spot, compare the ht burn if you cant see the contact lean in the photo..



Hope that saves someone some grief..

Cheers,
Martin

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Hi Darren,

Can you do me a favour, and overlay this one (two graphs on there) with JV's , and F50? Many thanks

Martin

Hi Martin,

Right bit more tricky this one because of the large reflection in the original image. Nil desperandum, I've digitised it instead. Bit of a fiddle - stretched Will's (I'm assuming it's Will's) to match the scale since this is revving to 8000 (so more than f50's scale runs to, hence why it falls off the end).

Looks right to me, as the torque/power curves cross at the same place on the graphs (5250 approx.) so I'm guessing I've got the scales right. All a bit of pulling and pushing though so I'm not saying it's 100% accurate, but pretty good.

f50_will_combo.JPG

Not bad results again.

Looks very similar and very high revving for a turbo.

BTW - not wanting to hassle you, but any sign of cutting me the 214cc chip? In Madrid for the next few days at a conference so might not get online depending on hotel wifi.

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Hi Darren,

Great thanks for that much appreciated... Yes correct, Will's car. Very interesting, very interesting... obviously I know the common elements (leaving the difference in over-pressure to oneside)) and those where the two build designs diverge and why chosen, but still interesting... when it was on the dyno, we could simply throw boost at it, and certainly responded holding 29 / 30 psi several times. Throttled it back to 22psi as this was an off-the-shelf spring rating for the wastegate. Now that the charge cooler water circuit is plumbed in (it wasn't for the dyno sessions, nor the session at Loton Park hill climb), it would make it interesting to dial in another 4 -5 psig... but that would likely put it beyond the present clutch, not planning to find out!

Hope you have a good conference. Yes chip, will do for when you are back, are you passing at any point?

Thanks,
Martin

ps... I thought you may like to know, the compressor wheel fitted, and hybrid to a different turbine, is the one from the unit I swapped with you way back when...

Glad to see that compressor came in useful. Wills is all out design for hill climbing right? So I assume you're not so worried about lag as he wants to keep it revving.

Very good though. Yet more positive results.

Yes I can drop by at some point. Best go get on a flight.

Cheers

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Hi Darren,

Chippies down the boys unit, so you can collect from there if not too late today. Message in a bottle, so let me know how you get on

Will's, it pulls full boost from low 3ks, from driving on the road, Gurston and Loton hill-climb days the turbo setup felt sweet enough

Can I ask another favour, if you could overlay Will's with JV's? That would be very much appreciated sir, when ever

Thanks,
Martin

Thanks again Martin. I was looking after the children today, so I'll pop down at some point. If you're planning to go down tomorrow (Sunday) at all then let me know, otherwise I'll pop down during the week. (I'll be passing sometime Weds/ Thurs anyway)

Re the graph. How's this grab you:

In fact, while we're at it. Here's all three. (I should make up a new scale as we've gone off the edge here)
F50s power and torque in yellow and pink respectively, Will's in black, JonV's as background image.

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Big thanks Darren, appreciate that.

Makes an interesting family of curves. All with OE headers, 2.5ltr bottom end, and an OE Renix ecu. Will's is quite hungry for boost (clearly able to cope with the mass flow) and think had development continued, I would have gone up to the next wastegate spring. Had seen 29/30 psig with pressure assistance to the spring, presently set at 22 psig; bottom end is showing signs of needing a refresh however, so probably best it isn't higher.

JVs makes a nice road setup, you don't need to pull the rpm, nice turbo and cam matching. Cedric's will make a nice comparison when he has finished; different hybrid turbo build, shares the same cams and turbo turbine shaft but in a 0.48 a/r housing to match his hill climb application. The 0.48 a/r will tip his torque curve, have to see how it pans out

Ian's Venturi build is going to be a nice comparison to F50, as a number of detail similarities, bump sticks from the same series as JV's, and the bi-turbo arrangement will be make that blisteringly quick.

Have you got a boost gauge fitted yet? Time to give yours some boost eh Darren

Thanks,
Martin

Yes need to get that plumbed in don't I. I need to get a few bits - rubber hoses and tee, but shouldn't be too tricky to install.

All of these three have your head work don't they?

"bump sticks" ha ha

Only just re-read that and realised what you meant.

All of these three have your head work don't they?

Indeed sir to varying degrees of modification. Cedric has modified OE sized valves only fitted to OE heads, I cut the seats for him and squeezed some other cuts in there whilst at it. I have another plot for Will's pre-modified heads, and with the same spec turbo as Cedric now has, except 0.63 a/r turbine housing. All the plots we are looking at and comparing are bhp / torque numbers at the wheels. Will's pre-heads should be an interesting compare to yours when you have some density being pushed in there, and will give you an idea what the next sized compressor I would select will do for you on your current turbine... All good fun...

Cheers,
Martin